I've received hundreds of responses to my article "Going Dutch, or How I Came to Love the European Welfare State." Here is a sampling.
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From the article it might seem that the 'polder model' means that trade unions and employers don't get into fights. Well, they do... the thing is, that in the end they always have to come together again to work out some kind of solution. The verb 'polderen' means
compromizing. We have to, because we have a multi-party system. That is the most important thing that is missing from the article, and it's a very significant difference between the US and the Netherlands. In the US the Democrats are in power now. But here... we have 150 seats in Parliament (comparible to the House of Representatives) and they're divided over 10 political parties! About 4 or 5 of them are the biggest ones with about 20-30 seats each, but we have 10. Some with just one or two seats. So in order
to reach a majority, coalitions need to be made. That requires compromizing, which is at the heart and soul of our nation.
- It might also seem that buying extra healthcare on top of the base health care, which is mandatory in the Netherlands and costs only 80$ a month, is really expensive. It's not. And besides: the mandatory minimum basically covers everything you might need. My little sister needed special surgery for a rare disease, and the only place in the world where they performed this surgery was not in the Netherlands but in Boston. It cost 750.000$ but ALL of it was paid for by the insurance company. Even our flight and hotel
there (the author doesn't say that extra healthcare is expensive, but you could think it is, especially if you're an American, haha).
- One other thing that was missing from the article is our pension system. Everybody who turns 65 gets AOW (General Elderly Law or something, hard to translate). This is about 1500$ a month. Even if you've never worked, you still get this. On top of that, you can
have (build) your own pension.
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I just want to thank you for your article "Going Dutch" in today's NY Times Magazine. I enjoyed reading it and, more importantly, now I have something to send to my American in-laws and friends, to help explain why I'm not interested in giving up my Dutch citizenship. I'm a microbiologist turned fiber artist, not a writer like you, so thank you for putting it all in words for me.
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Hi, Mr. Shorto, that was a marvelous article. It really made me think. I have only one disagreement with it---stores closed on Sunday. I grew up with blue laws, and I think it is a benefit for the store employees to have one day a week that they can count on to be not working so they can make family and recreation plans in advance.
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Just read your piece in the NYT magazine on the Netherlands and Amsterdam. I have a business there employing 50 people located in the Amstel Industrial park and have been traveling there three to four times per year for 35 years and always have difficulty communicating to my associates, especially my more politically conservative friends, back home what you have so elegantly described about the Netherlands. Thanks for a great piece.
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An absolutely stirling article with an even better title. It made me think hard and question some preconceptions.
You probably don't have the time or inclination for this, but I thought I'd try anyhow since there's no way to do comments on this article in the NTtimes mag. that I could find.
You say at one point, "There seem to be fewer risk-takers here." This on one level strikes me as illogical. It just seems that, if I did not have to worry about health care, habitat and sustinence, I would be more, rather than less, liable to risk change, a risk driven by interest and inclination rather than by fear of destitution. Why does this work out differently for the the Dutch? Is their conformity and homogeneity so pervasive that they are lulled into more of the same?
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I read your article and have to say, that Holland was just like you related in the 1970s..with a lot less going on… US health care is a disaster. I am broke from paying health insurance..every year ..$4000-5000 and I have had 1 minor claim in 25 years. Cant wait till I turn 65 in September!~ President Obama should read your article as should every Senator & Congressman.
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Thank you for your article "Going Dutch" in today's NY Times sunday edition (magazine, I think -- I get only the email edition).
Wonderfully clear and open. Hope it touches many who read it.
My parents were Dutch, but I lived in Holland only during "the" war.
I've done well in the US, but with old age feel more and more alienated from a country so split in half, so asleep, so confused.
You skipped one important difference -- Netherland (why is the English version "the"?) does not have half its national income go to "defense."
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I read your article in the NY Times magazine section, “Going Dutch”. I found it interesting and upon finishing the article I did some research on the demographics of the country which were enlightening. First, they do not have an unregulated immigration system. It is difficult to enter the country and become a ward of the state. Second, the percentage of the population that is not indigenous Dutch is relatively small. Third, they are a nation of savers and the population is well educated particularly in matters relative to economics. The key, they have a responsible population, a responsible government, and a banking system that is not mandated to make loans to non credit worthy individuals under the aegis of fairness.
Contrast this to our current situation where the percentage of people drinking the water is expanding at a rate that is straining the ability of those who are carrying the water. We have an education system with an emphasis on no child left behind is a euphemism for lowering standards to the lowest common denominator. Our banking system has been comprised to provide lending to the masses regardless of their ability to pay. It is obvious that our country no longer produces the wealth necessary to maintain our standard of living. To preserve our lifestyle we as a nation have been producing debt and not wealth. The Dutch have an uncanny knack of not only preserving their accumulated wealth but adding to it. To prescribe the Dutch system to the US without any acknowledgement of the debasement of our educational, political, and economic standards is an exercise in fantasizing about our true condition.
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Very nice piece in the NYT Magazine today.While my brother pays 35% vs.
52%, he pays $18,000 a year for health insurance and it so full of loopholes and deductibles and copayments and restrictions that when you add NYS and NYC tax and this, I'll bet he is pretty close to 52% and gets less for it.
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I suppose that I probably clicked on the link to your recent article in the New York Times, “Going Dutch”, in part because my ancestors are all Dutch and my relatives all once lived in Holland, Michigan. What kept me reading though was the fact that I find my native USA in such disarray.
Before I go any further let me say that I thoroughly enjoyed the discovery that “Going Dutch” afforded me. I have only lived the last 8 of 38 years back in the USA. After being away for 30 years, I lived 20 of those years either Brazil or Paraguay and the other ten in Canada, returning “home” has been an eye-opener. The first order of business was to discover if I was a Republican or a Democrat. It’s taken almost this entire 8 years to determine that I am neither, I am an Independent.
Another big difference was the central idea behind your article. My current, long distance girl friend is Brazilian and has worked a good long stint with the Brazilian Federal Government. Talking with her nightly with Skype I have been reminded of just how differently the relationship Brazilians have with their government things that had me telling her “OMG, that is so socialist” ….as if that were bad thing. Your article made me realize the truth to what you brought out about American’s revulsion to a system that seems to work just fine for a large number of Europeans.
Thank you for describing, in such a clear and entertaining way, the positive side of the Dutch social system.
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Read your article in the NYT today, interesting. Actually, the 52% is not as bad as you make out, since it is just the highest marginal rate, but I guess you know that. Still, I think you did give a wrong impression and I would have thought that the total “wedge” between your gross and your nett income should amount to somewhere between 35% and 40%, that is including the she-bang in social security contributions and the rest.
The other point you might have made relating to health care, when you mentioned your friend Ms Phillips’ regular visits with her baby to the public health clinic is that in terms of “bang for your buck” this is just about the most effective and efficient health care there is. Catching problems early and nipping them in the bud costs a fraction of what it would cost to cure them later on, not to mention the fact that the patient is spared a good deal of needless suffering. (As an aside, I couldn’t believe my ears when George Bush said that there is universal health care in America because “you can always go to the ER” and nobody set him right.)
What really astonishes me is to see this article of yours so high on the NYT popularity list. What is going on, are you guys getting serious about “creating socialism in America”? ;-)
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Thank you for your article in today's NYT Magazine. As an American with a Dutch wife living in Luxembourg, I can commiserate with all of your points. From the marvels of health care (our son was born here in the Grand Duchy) to the frustrations of shopping hours, you've hit it all spot on. I do wish more Americans could experience these aspects of European life and stop throwing the word Socialism around as a definite pejorative.
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I just read your article in the New York Times about living in Amsterdam as an American. It seems that the Netherlands and Sweden must have many similarities, for your experiences sounded in many ways like mine-- I come from Connecticut and moved to Umeå, in northern (!) Sweden, about one and a half years ago. I just had a couple of comments about your article, which was quite enjoyable, by the way.
The first is that in Sweden, tax rates can indeed reach up to 50% or beyond-- but you're talking about some high incomes at that rate. My income, as a student with a part-time research job, is ultimately taxed at a rate of 12.5%. It works this way: you know your tax rate will be about 30% if you make up to $40,000, so most people have 30% automatically taken out of their pay checks. If you made considerably less than that, a substantial amount comes back to you in June. I know you didn't intend to write a treatise on European tax systems, but still I would think that in the Netherlands, as in Sweden, many or even the majority pay tax rates similar to U.S. rates-- no where near 50%. I know I don't.
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I much enjoyed reading your article in today's NYT as it resonated with my own experience in many ways. I am an American lawyer living and working in Norway.
I would like to suggest another way of looking at the Dutch attitude that the system must take responsibility for taking care of those in need. Cf. comment from Buford Alexander. Why should those in need be at the mercy of individual initiative to be cared for and not a reliable system? Doesn't dependance on random individual initiative and generosity defeat the aim of social security and also harm human dignity? Shouldn't the issue be looked at from the vantage point of those in need and how they are affected by their misfortune?
Thank you for your article!
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It is truly a stunning "achievement" to write a lengthy article about Holland without mentioning the words "Islam" or "Muslim." Ah, yes, I believe there was one vague reference to "non-Western immigration." The Dutch system is under lethal threat (you may have heard of Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali) from intolerant immigrants who are at war with all the values the Dutch cherish. From what I can tell after a late night perusal of your piece, your determination to ignore Muslim extremism and the blight of cities like Rotterdam is nothing less than blatant dishonesty.
Anyway, I'm sure the Netherlands still works relatively well - but that may be due less to its welfare state than the fact that it just happens to be populated by a whole lot of socially cooperative and non-violent Dutch folks ... although their percentage of the population dwindles by the day.
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I'd like to thank you for this well written and researched article.
Having studied, married,and worked 25 years in Germany I know all to well the benefits of a democracy with a "human face"...that is literally translated from German, sounds maybe a bit strange but really fits the picture.
I have been back living , mostly suffering,i.e. no health insurance, a spat of homelessness and the daily survival angst,in the US for 6 years.
I do see a small ray of hope with Obama's election that the US is ready to turn away of the dark side of capitalism and embrace a social consciousness which can offer some checks and balance to a free market system.
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The richest county on earth that does not take care of it's own but nevertheless holds itself up to the world "as the best country on earth", is a blight upon humanity.
I have waited many years for your thoughts to be voiced. When I voiced them in the US the reply was 'Love it or leave it';
another expression of the black/white dicatomy this country has been trapped in toooo long.
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I just finished reading your recent piece in the NYT Magazine. Very nice work.
I am an American, and I've been living in Amsterdam for about a year (I lived in Germany for about 4 years before that). I am a neuroscientist and work at the University of Amsterdam. In the past 5 years, I've been back in the US only for a few weeks at a time, although now I spend 3-4 winter months in Tucson AZ. I feel torn between Europe -- and, in particular, the Netherlands -- and the US, because I'm definitely not European (too individualistic and much too risk-seeking), but I simply cannot imagine living in the US anymore, and each time I go back I feel more and more estranged from the American way of life.
Anyway, a good friend of mine was here for the past week, and we had many conversations about Amsterdam vs. US. Your article touched on most of the points we discussed in a succinct, thoughtful, and well-written manner. Thanks for laying out what I think many expats here believe, and why it would behoove Americans to consider the benefits of the "socialist" lifestyle that the Dutch have mastered.
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Hi Shorto, Well, well, well... So, my question is: how long have you been writing of this too positive article. A very naive piece of shit. Look bro, here in Holland we say: een halve waarheid is een hele leugen. So, this means everything you've described about our health-care, is too sunny. Because, first of all we have too many benefit receivers, in Dutch: uitkeringtrekkers. And you have to quess by which part of citizens in The Netherlands I mean. That was also THE reason why Hans Hoogervorst turned everthing in the old health-care system turned upside down. And then: that asshole Hans Hoogervorst said: if something goes wrong I will resign. But, so many things went wrong and that moron stayed. For Godsake Shorto, you had to describe that too! You really pissed me off! This mulitprutuele society is the fucking reason for so many things that goes wrong and this is the most important thing that went wrong! UNITED WE STAND WITH GEERT WILDERS!!!
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I have not emailed an author of an article, ever, but found myself compelled to congratulate you on your excellent work. I'm Dutch, having grown up in Holland, but moved to the US when I was 21. (After
7 years in the US I moved to Australia). I left Holland, as you mentioned because it was too small for someone who didn't want to fit the mold. That doesn't mean I don't hold my home-land dear to my heart. I found your observations accurate, and most of all, they seemed to get at the essence of the Dutch establishment.
The thing that sets American and Holland apart is freedom. In Holland as you walk down the street people size you up, and give you a 'place'. If you trip on your shoelace you are acutely aware that everyone around you have seen your stumble, and thinks you the lesser for it. In the US people give each other the freedom to be, to fail, to succeed they'll let you be. This I think is the core difference between the Dutch and the Americans. Without proclaiming the superiority of one of the the other, I don't believe the Dutch system could ever work in the US because the cultural gap is too vast.
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Russell, will have to assume you're a typical dishonest mainstream leftie journo, although there's the off-chance you're just ignorant, but you've left out major facts from your story: 1. Most productive Dutch people emigrated a long time ago: to the USA, South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. (I'm one of them by the way). 2. The collectivist Great Unwashed which is left is able to live in their illusory world because YOU THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE PROVIDING 99% OF THEIR DEFENSE. Dutch doctors by the way are DEADLY I know this from personal experience - extremely high death in childbirth rates, reluctance to upgrade skills, even simple things like getting an anaesthetic is a challenge. And of course all the healthcare is rationed, and euthanasia provided to those unpleasant lingerers. Well dishonest lying Russell, all the best to you.
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Hello Mr. Shorto,
I read your article, "Going Dutch", in the Times, and I enjoyed it. It laid out the benefits of the European style social welfare system well, and honestly acknowledged the downsides. I hope (though don't expect) that pundits and politicians will consider these facts rationally when looking towards the future of America.
Two things that I didn't see addressed in the piece:
What about the Dutch unemployed?
You mention the influx of immigrants in recent years, and the indigenous unrest over them, but I'm curious what the living conditions are for those immigrants. Obviously their necessities are cared for, but what work do they pursue? What do they do with their free time in what you describe as a homogenous society?
Also:
America's minority populations (both immigrants and nationals) are often here through unhappy circumstances. The African American population has, only in its recent generational past, the specter of slavery, segregation, and (still today) intuitional racism. Other minorities who have immigrated here have done so because of the conditions in their own countries which can be linked directly to past American actions. Although these facts are glossed by politicians, press, and public, they exist, and contribute to a still dark atmosphere of racism and hatred. Even poor whites have the gulf of class to cross - a white family living in public housing, receiving welfare, watching NASCAR, with drug addicted family members isn't someone to be helped, they're someone to be sneered at as white trash.
I'm not familiar with Dutch history, admittedly, but it stands to reason that America is another case altogether.
Don't get me wrong, I think we desperately need better social safety nets for those tossed to the bottom of a trickle down economy, but is it even feasible? You mention in the article, rightly so, that for collectivism to work you need all members to feel they are contributing equal parts. But, in America, these people have been the subject of hatred, ridicule, and negative propaganda since the country's inception. You're dealing with generations who have been raised on the pioneer myth, where those in the lowest rungs of society are there through their own degenerative habits. They should get a job, goes conventional wisdom. They should work hard until they're living that middle class lifestyle. Even the American left (a laughable phrase) gives this opinion as fact.
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What a great article! Your report on the Netherlands is magnificent. I shared it with several of my Dutch friends and with my wife and children (5) and all of them loved it. It provides a window into new social structures for the US that may help Obama to achieve his dream of creating a more just society.
I have visited Amsterdam and the Netherlands many times and have a deep appreciation for the simplicity and openness of the culture. I would encourage you to share more about your insights into the Dutch Way of Life with the global audience that reads the NTY and some of the other papers where you contribute your essays. Tell them about the family, higher education, sports, languages, nutrition, tolerance for other races and religions, food, directness, etc.